Black Love Roundtable
Words: Square Rootz • Feb 18th, 2008 • Category: SUBSTANCE.What do Black people have to say about Black love? We facilitated a discussion between eight people, between the ages of 23 and 32, on the topic. Find out what they had to say about cheating, interracial dating, marriage and more.
Why do you think other guys were reluctant to join this group?
”I don’t care to go to a white man now because I love me some Black men. I don’t want a Hispanic man, unless they know they’re Black. I don’t want anything other than a Black man because I want to be able to cry while watching ‘X’ and feel like I have to hold back.” - Jwa Henry
Lemu Coker (New York, Advertising Executive, 26): Is that really true, because you have three guys here. Is that your perception or is that true?
Jessica Jones (California, Square Rootz, 24): We contacted a lot of guys. One said, he doesn’t believe in love and another said he’s not looking for a relationship, so why should he care? And, then 10 ignored me.
[Group laughs]
Jeneen Nicole (Maryland, Stylist, 26): I’ve contacted a couple of guys as well [to be a part of this] and one response was, ‘That’s mad corny’ and ‘Why do we have to sit around talking about love? It’s 3 o’clock in the afternoon, I have better things to do.’ Oh and ‘I’m preparing for the Super Bowl.’
Qa’id Jacobs (New Jersey, Graphic Designer/Web Developer, 32): I think that reaction, while common, perhaps typical, is really indicative of a larger symptom of social expectations and social mores. What can a dude feel comfortable doing, saying or where can they feel comfortable being, considering what society thinks of us and expects of us? The other side is that folks are lazy and afraid.
Kat Noel (New York, Square Rootz, 24): What are they afraid of?
Jwa Henry (New Jersey, Freelance Writer, 27): Rejection and having someone look at them in a certain way now that they’ve said something out loud. It’s okay for women to kind of let their guard down but they make it appear that it’s okay for men.
Lemu Coker:We have guys who are open about things and are really convicted with their thoughts on love and relationships. They don’t necessarily want to share them with people, being afraid that the thing that they’re most adamant about will get cut to pieces by someone who completely doesn’t agree with you. Some take that as a challenge for a good debate and some people don’t.
Kat Noel: When you say some people, do you mean guys or people in general?
Lemu Coker: People in general but you can relate that to guys.
Women are nurtured to be open. It is known that we get together, sit in circles and harp about the current state of our personal relationships. I just wonder, do guys sit around and talk about relationships, like ‘Damn, I wish I had a girlfriend’?
“If you compare the way that Jewish people or Indians from India, the way they structure their familes and the way they deal with relationship building, it’s way more restrictive. If you date outside of your ethnicity don’t even come back to the family, which is harsh for the individual but look at the group. The result for the group is that they stay tighter, they have stronger communities, the familes are larger.”- Qa’id Jacobs
LC:You won’t get eight or nine deep [of us], talking about ‘Yo, how’s your life? What’s going on?’ You may have a conversation with a close friend but it may not go into as much detail as women go into.
CK: More often a guy would talk to a female friend, more so than another guy.
KN: What’s the apprehension with discussing love with other guys?
JJ: I think guys think they’re being soft if they talk about relationships and love. Guys think that they need be screwing everybody. They’re not supposed to have feelings and want to be with just one person.
LC: I don’t think that’s necessarily true. Every guy has another guy that he can confide in and have conversations about his love life, but I don’t think there’s any expectation of what you should be doing. I don’t think there’s someone saying, ‘Guys should be out there having sex,’ that’s not really true.
QJ: Holdup, hold up, in those words, I agree. In those words, brothers aren’t like, ‘How many you bagged today?’ but you got to recognize that the more conquest stories you can tell, the more bravado you can legitimately bring. Amongst dudes, often there is competition, it may not even be about women, but what gear you’re wearing or money. You can’t totally discount that perspective.
India Davis (California, fashion designer/artist, 23): How come it has to be a conquest? Girls are competitive too, but it’s not like, ‘Oh, I slept with this guy, that guy, and that one.’ I don’t understand why it has to be that way.
JH: It’s a total double standard when it comes to women bagging a dude. Say a guy is 25-years-old and by that time he has slept with about 100 women, I know plenty of guys that are like that. If I were 25 and I had sex with 60 dudes, I would look nasty.
ID: Don’t you think that’s because it’s something that’s conditioned upon guys?
JH:Yes, that’s true but there’s always retaliation to conditioning. For example, because you get messed over by a dude you’re going to be like, ‘Screw it, I’m not even going to deal with just one dude. I’m going to sleep with this dude, this dude, that dude and I’m going to tell all of them about each other, and they can all go screw themselves because I’m bouncing after I get my nut!’ [Group laughs] If you’re going to be “like a dude”, it’s almost as if you need to have a “mindset of a dude.” You have to be on some, ‘I don’t care, I’m all about getting mine and my career.’
How does all of this in general, translate into the current state of Black love, specifically?
“Also, if you’re going to think regionally, New York City, it’s worse here. Even when it comes to your apartment, your job, everyone thinks there’s something better out there. If they find someone, it’s as if they’re settling, so they’re always still on the look out for what’s better. It’s really be hard to be in love here.” -Jessica Jones
KN: Does it exist now?
JH: I don’t know.
LC: When you look at Black love, it’s how you want to see it. I know people doing very well, I know people doing horribly but I don’t choose to focus on that. I look at people who are doing well and are holding it down right now. They make me proud, like ‘Hey, that’s my man. He was out in the streets back in the day, but he got his life together and is now holding it down with one lady.’ You have some who may say, ‘Black love is in the gutter’ because that’s what they choose to see. I’m sure they know healthy couples.
JJ: Also, if you’re going to think regionally, New York City, it’s worse here. Even when it comes to your apartment, your job, everyone thinks there’s something better out there. If they find someone, it’s as if they’re settling, so they’re always still on the look out for what’s better. It’s really hard to be in love here.
LC:Look at just the nature of New York City. It’s the City of Hustlers and City of Go-getters. A lot of people move here from other states to further their careers or aspirations of any sort. If you take that idea and move it to relationships, people are always looking to do better. That’s why New York is different than Tulsa or the Bay Area even.
JN: There culture is different here. There’s about 100 girls for one guy…
QJ: Is that a real statistic?
[Group laughs]
KN:Out of the various ethnicities and races of all my friends, I never hear my white girlfriends say, ‘Man, white guys are just so hard to get with’ or my white guy friends say, ‘White females are just so difficult and they expect so much from me.’ But when it comes to us there’s always one gender complaining about the other, and there seems to be this large disconnect as far as communication and us wanting to actively be together. I think other people are like, ‘We’re together and there’s no question about it’ but with us…..
JJ: There’s too much drama.
JH: Baggage.
KN:If you can find a good Black mate, everyone’s for it but the idea of actually finding one is like, ‘Mmmmm, I don’t really think so.’
JN: It’s definitely been conditioned, it’s been taught. I really take it all the way back to slavery when the master would turn us against our mate. It’s been passed down to generation, to generation.
JH: Women are taught now, as Black women, to be more independent because you have no choice. We do get abandoned very often by the Black man in the sense of, ‘I got pregnant and now he’s leaving.’ There are men out there that take care of their responsibilities but at the end of the day, a woman needs to take care of her responsibilities now. You have to be that man as well as that woman, and it’s a lot of burden for Black women to have such a strong role. We’ve always had one, but now it’s 10 times fold because daddy left. It’s a cycle and someone has to break it.
JN: Where do you begin to pick up the pieces? If you’re living in a single household and the father figure is not around, how do you teach your kids to be in relationships?
LC:If you as a person have kids and you want them to be in healthy relationships, you can’t necessarily find them a mate but you have to at least show them what it looks like, make them be around people who have that. You want your kids to believe in love, but not that everything is pretty and clean. Back to what you were saying about your white friends, it’s weird because white people don’t necessarily talk about race like that. We see it and know about it. Like W.E.B Dubios talks about that veil - we have the ability to see both worlds.
KN: If I’m in the streets and I see a Black family, I stop and stare at them because I don’t see it too often, especially young couples. I feel that you’re literally making a statement that says, ‘We’re here.’ It shouldn’t be that way, it should be the norm to see Black families walking around. Why aren’t our relationships being taken to the next level where we’re making it something, producing some children and keeping it going?
JH: In general, women are always more ready to settle down before men if they’re the same age. The guy I’m dating now, I’ve been dating for year and he won’t even call me his girlfriend because he’s focused on his career. I’ve done everything I could have possibly done. I don’t want to get married anytime soon but I would like to be able to know that this was building up to something where I can have my Black babies. I can’t have that because I’m trying to build with a dude that’s not ready for that.
ID: You know what’s sad? When I see families here the first thing that pops into my head honestly is, who is he cheating on her with? And then I’ll say, ‘It’s so sad, she doesn’t even know.’
Do all guys cheat?
“A lot of scholars debate whether desegregation was productive. We are doing well now but as a Black community we’re not. We’re no longer held together by this overarching idea that we need to hold eachother up.”-Lemu Coker
JJ: I was under the impression that perfection is something that you can have, and that your partner will not cheat on you and be honest. But the more that I’m in relationships, I’m realizing that maybe guys aren’t as perfect as I thought that they should be.
LC: No one is perfect.
CK: Far from perfect…
QJ: Cheating is not inherent, it’s not part of the Y chromosome.
JH: You got to spice it up, give them what they want. There are a lot of things that you may not want to do inside of a relationship, but you feel like you should do them just to make that person happy. If you want me to dress up like a French maid, clean your house, and tell you how bad I’ve been - I don’t want to do that but I’ll do it for your birthday, just because it’s about compromise and being perfection for your partner. There’s a lot of things that I might want and I would hope that they would do those things for me too.
KN:Our ideas of self, being Black males and Black females, are so limiting. We’ll say, ‘As a Black man or female, I don’t do this. This is not my role in a relationship,’ so we look towards other ethnicities that are sometimes more apt to be open-minded in relationships. I wonder why we limit ourselves.
CK: That’s a big problem. I understand the shared experience, the history that we have. I definitely do think that there’s a Black identity that’s been cultivated but ,within that, when you start putting hard-and-fast things on what it means to be a Black woman and man, you’ll be in trouble.
Thoughts on interracial dating
“Communities need to be uplifted. If I’m somewhere and a group of people need water, I can’t pump the water for them. I need to show them that this is how you make a tool to to get the water. You need to show them how to do all this together, so that when you leave that community they’re not stranded because they have the tools to make it work.”- India Davis
LC:On the individual level, I don’t think there should be a problem with it because every person has different wants and needs. On a higher level, I don’t necessarily think that there’s a problem per se, but I do think that there are things we needs to remedy in the Black community and it’s very helpful to see Black men and women together. It does help push forth the idea that two Black people together can work. But, on the individual level, sure do your thing.
CK:I can’t help but feel that kind of sets up a situation where you have two people who take that to the extreme and they might not be the best match for each-other. The one binding thing is the ideal of this model. It can be quite easily based on a false premise.
KN: I don’t think anyone should create something just off of one factor, no matter how big race may be.
JN: I’ve dated outside of my race and I don’t think I would ever do it again. There were cultural boundaries, I couldn’t really open up, I was always self conscious no matter what. I couldn’t sit there and watch Roots with him, you know what I’m saying? I couldn’t open up, in spite of how he treated me. There was always a limit on how far I would go culturally.
JJ: I’ve dated outside of my race too and we broke up over a racial thing. There are two types of people: those who think interracial dating is fine and would rather end up with another Black person, but if they don’t, it’s okay and then there are those who date exclusively outside of their race and I think that’s an issue.
ID: Have you noticed a difference between the east coast and west coast?
JJ: The main thing I’ve noticed here is that you’ll see a Black guy with locks, who you think would be into you but yet only dates white girls. On the west coast, not trying say if you have locks “you’re down”, it’s just not like that.
ID: I’m from Southern California and [interracial dating] is a big deal. Most of my Black male friends, they do not date Black women. One of my exes said, ‘You’re the first Black woman I’ve ever dated. I don’t Black women, you guys are loud.’
QJ: I have a particular philosophy about dating outside of our race, I have done it myself with women of color and that’s like a gray area for me. My question specifically is about comparing brothers who date outside of their race and women who date outside of their race, and there’s a distinct difference in judgment there. I’ve noticed amongst sisters there’s a lot more lenience. I wanted throw that out there because I think it’s whack.
KN: It’s always the thought that there’s more females than guys. To see a Black guy with someone of another race or ethnicity, it lessens the pool. I don’t think Black guys ever feel like they’re losing us. There’s a perception that if Black women do date outside of their race, it’s because we’ve tried for so long to find someone of our race and then just gave up.
ID: I see more Black men with white women, than Black women and white men.
JN:Women usually go back to their race. We’re like, ‘I’m going to give the brothers another chance; I can’t do this.’
JH: I dated a white dude and he was the Blackest dude I knew.
QJ: What does that mean?
JH:He introduced me to Fela Kuti, more Miles [Davis], more John [Coltrane]. He was so musically inclined. What he taught me though from the relationship was how I’m supposed to be treated as a woman.
LC: You just never dated the right Black dudes.
JH:I’m not saying that I didn’t date really great Black guys, but during that time I was a little bit younger and he was older than me, obviously because you always have to go older.
LC: Always?
JH: Yeah, because when you’re in your early 20s there no early 20s dudes. None. He was 10 years my senior and taught me how my scale should be for how a man should treat me. Men treat me like that now, but that’s because I learned it from somewhere else. I don’t care to go to a white man now because I love me some Black men. I don’t want a Hispanic man, unless they know they’re Black. I don’t want anything other than a Black man because I want to be able to cry while watching X and not feel like I have to hold back. I would date a white dude but I would feel bad for my children having to deal with all the name calling like zebra…
LC:Halfrican.
KN: I have dated outside of my race, but not at the age I am now. When I see interracial relationships of Black men with other women, it doesn’t bother me but I gauge it. If I’m walking down the street and I see you leaning into your other woman as if my Blackness might rub off on her, then I have a problem because I’m wondering where you’re relationship is coming from. But, if you two are walking down the street and you’re confident in your love, you both make eye contact and smile at me because I’m smiling at you, then I have no problem because it seems like genuine love. I’m not coming from a place of I want him or I’m hating on you. I just want to know the foundation of this union right here.
QJ: I’m going to throw something out there and it’s a little harsh, but frankly I believe we are living in harsh times right now in terms of the survival of what we consider to be Black people. In many departments we are failing in comparison [to other ethnicities], so lets continue to compare. If you compare the way that Jewish people or Indians from India, the way they structure their families and the way they deal with relationship building, it’s way more restrictive. If you date outside of your ethnicity don’t even come back to the family, which is harsh for the individual but look at the group. The result for the group is that they stay tighter, they have stronger communities, the families are larger. I just want to throw out the fact that the longer we allow ourselves to pursue these individualistic goals and desires, recognize that there’s a consequence. Our family structure erodes.
KN: There’s an exception for us to be inclusive. It’s always an issue when we’re doing something by ourselves because other people feel that they need to join in or takeover. As you said, with Indian and Jewish culture everyone admires the strength of their unity. I think it’s ingrained in us to feel that we have to include other people in what we’re doing, including Black love.
LC: There’s this great debate in academia on how desegregation was the end of Black families and Black wealth. After we were able to get out there, we were no longer only “confined” to our own communities. People considered themselves as “accomplished” when they can move above that, leaving it behind them. A lot of scholars debate whether desegregation was productive. We are doing well now but as a Black community we’re not. We’re no longer held together by this overarching idea that we need to hold each-other up.
KN: What worries me is that a lot of us know all this and there isn’t intentional action on our part to make a change. Yes, I am an individual but I know that whatever I do affects others, maybe not now but definitely in the future. That’s how I live my life. When I think of relationships, yes, it’s the two of us but I also think, who else am I impacting? It’s really living to be an example and I don’t think a lot of us live that way. It’s a lot of pressure and it may be a burden, but some people need to sacrifice a little bit and take on that burden for it to be easier for others. All this, ‘I’m a humanist and I believe in the human race,’ is kind of BS to me because you may believe in that, but other people aren’t looking through that lens. When I fill out a survey there’s no box for human race. We do not live in a utopia where people don’t see race and it’s okay that we start melting together. The whole term ‘melting pot’ rubs me the wrong way because what or who are we all melting into?
What can be done about Black love?
“What worries me is that a lot of us know all this and there isn’t intentional action on our part to make a change. Yes, I am an individual but I know that whatever I do affects others, maybe not now but definitely in the future. That’s how I live my life. When I think of relationships, yes, it’s the two of us but I also think, who else am I impacting?”- Kat Noel
JN: [In the 'hood] it was about survival, not love. It’s about the hustle.
QJ: We have to ask ourselves, ‘Are we prepared to be the ones that make whatever sacrifice that is necessary?’ or do we put it down and say, ‘Okay, whatever we have here is gone, let’s start over?’ You’re right, it’s community. My mother raised me and I didn’t have a male presence in my house. I consider myself to be a very positive brother. I do my relationships properly and I know how to live right.
JN: Was that self-taught, something that you learned along the way?
QJ: Some of it. In order for me to realize those things, I had to be trained. I’m a product of my mother using community to help me understand what I should be as a man, as a role model. A community can be seven people deep but we have to start to show young people that there’s power in community. Not even like, ‘Hey, yo, young person, there’s power in community’; you don’t have to use words because they’ll pick it up on their own. You’re right, it’s dramatic in the ‘hood and it’s about survival, that’s why we have to start now and say, ‘I know you can barely figure out what to do other than survive but every Saturday we have a meeting where we talk about African leaders.’ It’s going to be a long struggle because this sh*t is by design. Cats got together and said, ‘How can we subjugate a people?’
JJ: Just in terms of community, we need to teach young Black males to respect young Black women walking down the street. I don’t think guys know what it’s like to walk down the street and have people yelling at you, commenting on your body. That really has an affect on you and almost creates a resentment towards Black men. It’s hard meeting people because you don’t know who’s being really genuine. If someone just says, ‘Good morning’ I don’t even want to hear it because I’ve already heard it from six other people, who had something else to say along with good morning. We need to start teaching young Black men that it’s not okay and they need to respect every Black woman on the street as if she were your mother or your sister.
ID: Communities need to be uplifted. If I’m somewhere and a group of people need water, I can’t pump the water for them. I need to show them that this is how you make a tool to to get the water. You need to show them how to do all of this together, so that when you leave that community they’re not stranded because they have the tools to make it work.
QJ:If you look at the Panthers and Black Liberation Army, they started with feeding programs. They had a few kids come in the morning, gave them bowls of cereal and then they were like, ‘Today, is Malcolm X Day.’ That’s where you get it in. While you have kid’s attention give them a nugget of knowledge and keep it moving. You got to give folks water when they’re thirsty but give them a cup that has Mandela’s picture on it. That’s the technique that we have to use right now because sh*t is dramatic. If no one does anything it’s going to get worse.
Square Rootz is the muthah-effin deal, kid! We recommend you step back and kiss yourself. Now.
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this roundtable is the shit! thanks, ladies, for putting this together. it’s really interesting to read the thoughts of black women AND men on this topic, especially that of interracial dating. i’ve had a lot of trouble with that notion and hearing the variety of thought on it was eye-opening. keep it coming!
i got major beef!!!
i wasn’t invited to this discussion!!!
on the other hand though, this was very interesting, reading all of these different points of views. it’s amazing that more people actually care about this relationship and love stuff, than we’re led to believe.
keep the great content flowing!!!
peace.
D
wow this was a great conversation. i learned a lot about what other folks like me are thinking and we’re all pretty much on the same page. i really do hope to see more Black families together out and about doin their thang and hopefully i’ll be apart of that crew and so will all Black folks. i have hope for Black LoVe!
Being a part of this discussion gave me hope. I do believe in some areas we’re in a state of emergency, and loving ourselves and eachother is definitely one of them. I guess we all got to start at the roots because if you don’t love yourself, how can you love someone else?
I enjoyed reading the dialogue of your discussion on Black love. Discussions can help to uncover some of the problems we are facing, but these issues are so deeply inebbed in the Black culture, just like a cancer, it’s impossible to cut it all away.
Unfortunately, for African-Americans, women in particular, finding and maintaining a genuine love relationship containing depth, commitment, and security is slowly becoming a thing of the past. Some of it is regional. In places like Dallas, with a large Black population heavily influenced by the church, young black families are flourishing and marriage is the norm. If you’re not use to seeing this, it can throw you a bit, and I’m sure you can find similar dynamics in other cities as well. But not the majority.
Yet, the fact remains that for Black women there just aren’t going to be enough “marriage material” brothers with the right set of priorities to go around, especially the more intelligent and successful you are. Does that mean your life is over? Absolutely not! MY ADVICE. Love yourself and live your life to the fullest by living in the moment and finding joy and gratitude in everything you’re doing…NOW. Cultivate relationships and build friendships with young, old, male, and female. Find your passion(s) and pursue them. Continue to grow and be the best YOU that you can be.
Stop waiting for, looking for, or seeking Mr. or Mrs. Right, however, create your love list (characters you’d like in a mate),put it in your journal or prayer box, and forget about it. Your list creates intention for a loving relationship, but surrenders the power to God and the universe to bring it to pass.
Know that you are not defined by who you are with, but by who God created YOU to be. Be that person. Listen to and be lead by the still small voice in your heart. Never compromise your values and always adhere to your boundaries. And in God’s divine love, grace, and timing, let HIM bless you with the right person for you, someone that will enhance your life and his plan for you.
The Bible says “hope deferred makes the heart sad.” Live today, and put your future in God’s hands and trust him to do what’s best for you. You don’t just want a man, you want a DIVINE MAN. So let the DIVINE show you the way. And don’t settle for less. Take it from someone who knows!
Ms. Rhonda thank you! Your words are absolutely true. Back in high school I was part of a spirituality club and a teacher running the group had recently gotten engaged. She admitted that she spent years beating the mean streets in search of a partner and had no luck. One day, she wrote a list of all the characteristics she wants in a mate (nothing about him being tall, dark and handsome) and placed it in the middle of Bible, figurative and literally giving it up to her Higher Power. Years passed, with that list forgotten and she met her fiance. One day, while packing to move in with him, she was flipping through her old Bible and found the list. She was shocked that every single attribute she wrote on her list, her mate, now husband, possessed.
From high school to now, that story remained in my heart. A few years ago, I found myself beating streets with my fellow single friends in hopes that our proactivity would result in some great dates and a possible winter boo, but our efforts didn’t help our situation any and left us feeling depleted. I remembered the story that was told to me back in high school and began to write my list of things I truly need and deserve in a partner. I forgot about any of the physical things I like in a man and focused solely on things I wanted his heart and mind to possess. I folded the paper up and left it alone. The act, though simple, brought peace to me.
Now, I’m in an amazingly wonderful relationship with a man who is all that I want, deserve, need and more. He’s my partner and friend in each and every way. We both recognize that relationships are a tightrope, where it’s important that we both move along together, as one, in order to remain balanced and move forward.
Wow! Great job guys! This is a wonderful roundtable! I’m sad I missed it. It’s great to hear what page folks are on. This gives me some hope, and Lord knows I’m jaded… Also, THANKS to Ms. Rhonda for the comment! Very inspiring.
I’m quite suprised no one pointed out the most obvious reason why the black family is suffering; black people for the most part are poor. That’s why the black communities in the south and southwest are flourishing somewhat, they have a sizable black middle class. Statistically, poor people tend to not get married, and when they do, their marriages conclude with divorces. The same phenomenon exists in white commnities.
Another reason why black love is faltering comes from the fact that black women today have apparently forgotten their value. It is not for a black man to tell a black woman what her value is, it is for her to constantly and adamantly defend herself.
In response to Leeward, I think as a people we don’t value ourselves or each other enough. Black women have more self esteem issues than the fellas (or is that we express it more?). And while it is not for a black man to tell a woman what her value is, as a black woman it gets exhausting supporting ourselves and our men. Sometimes it certainly can feel like our men are not in our corner. You use the word “defend” and I disagree that this is what we should be doing constantly. I’m not sure men realize how hard it is to step outside every day and have to put on armor against everyone, and specifically against our own men. Like Jessica said in the discussion, we are being disrespected left and right and it definitely takes a toll on our mental state. So while we do not need to be told by others what we are worth, it is time for our Kings to step up and stand up for their Queens.
Were any of the people in this discussion married? I am…ask me some questions…
This is a first for me. I am 75. Want to say that I was very moved and impressed by the words of wisdom coming from you young women. I look for more voices like yours as we move into the new age of Aquarius. Change is moving in the air… or to quote Bob Morley their is a mystic message in the air.
DEE - you asked if any at the round table is married. I had the feeling we were all single, just based on the different perspectives everyone was expressing. I don’t know if any one had previously been married.
Speaking of marriage - I don’t think Black Love has much to do with marriage. Sure, I understand why it’s brought up and why it’s relevant to a discussion about Black Love, but I think marriage is one of the reasons why so many of us consider Black Love and black relationships to be failing: here we are trying to conform our emotional experiences with one another to this institutionalized notion of harmony sanctioned by churches and bureaucratic certificates. People love in different ways, and I think it’s not always useful or fair to hold marriage up as the height of love, the epitome of balance, or the thing to aim for achieving in a relationship. Of course I know black couples that are married and have a beautiful union that fills me with joy and light just to behold them. But the source of that joy and that light is not the MARRIAGE, it’s the LOVE.
I’m not at all disregarding the strength, beauty, heritage, and value of the Black church - at all! But I think we’re missing something if we turn to look at ourselves (and the way we do or don’t love each other) and then say that the solution lies with our faith in a power that is beyond us.
I’m going to hold firm to the idea that there is a lot we can do with and for each other to strengthen each other, to love each other, to teach other (especially the baybeez), to find our good partners, and to spread black love. The things we can do are not complex or expensive; they’re really basic. Here’s one: talk to the black people you DON’T know. Strangers on your street, folks in your hood, fellow shoppers at the grocery store, commuters on that bus/train you ride every day. Old folks, young folks, everybody. Let’s get out of our personal comfort zones to create a more comfortable community. Risk embarrassment, risk rude responses.
Get to know people. When you know people then you can hold them accountable for their actions. When you know the brothers on the corner by name, then you can check them when you see them they verbally disrespect a young sister as she’s walking by (for example) - and they’ll listen.
These are the types of roots of love that I think we need to take care of, so that not only will Black Love flourish in turn, but so too of course will Black Community.
Wassup Qa’id– thanks for the shout out…very interesting perspective.
I agree, when you talk about Black Love it is much more than that which occurs between two people, romantic partners. Black Love stretches across the world and touches young an old. It’s a smile or slang, a gesture, a handshake, an entire culture of music…BUT, eventually you have to talk about marriage because Black folks get married everyday.
And to that end, marriage is what our society, most of the world, recognizes as the validating threshold of a romantic relationship, fortunately and unfortunately. Fortunately, based on my research, it seems that certificates were not in the original plan of marriage, these seem to have been later developed concepts- however (pls pardon me) here I need to dig deeper still. But, it seems that marriage in Genesis was about something deeper. And I’m still and will forever be learning about that.
We are bombarded by messages, etc., that to find one mate is good- whether we agree, as a people, we’re aware of the implication and expectation thereof. We may not subscribe to those expectations but they’re there. Now my feelings on this are mixed like most of us affected in society, by media and internet, blah blah. However, I do think a marriage can be the best relationship (example of black love) there is if it is good, inspiring, loving, and compromising.
It teaches how to relate to one another, to sistahs and brothahs at large. In one aspect: there’s nothing more loving to your people as a whole than the display of respect for ones counterpart. When you show genuine love and support for your “other half” you show respect for those who look upon it. Let’s not be so quick to dismiss the Covenant whether or not we struggle with it.
Again, my initial comment was brief and hopefully not insulting–point being I’m down to join a face to face discussion, and I happen to be married- so hopefully that adds perspective.
Black love is so many things, aggreed! AND black marriage is one of those things, most definately.
Much Love
D
I am so happy to see & read & think about this discussion. It brought some interesting points to the table and affirmed some of my lil’ opinions that I always felt too silly to share.
I’m also a believer that Black love has and does reach the community in which it exists. Maybe it sounds corny, but I would walk around with my (former) boyfriend very proudly and very much radiating and people responded to that and admired whatever message we were putting out there. People also responded when they realized we were no longer together. My students have also expressed very earnestly and purely about the seemingly happy and healthy couples they see on the streets, in their own homes, how it makes them “want that.” So, our love, our actions of love, can reach and inspire our neighbors, our babies. It’s quite profound. I smile when I see any couple that seems to be shining with love, but I feel uplifted when its’ a black couple. That’s just how it goes for me.
It really was great to be apart of that conversationand see that sooo many people got sumthin from it. I think I got a better insight of more views from alot of the comments that were left. Thank u.
Interesting… more productive convos like this are needed. I believe it starts with brothers and sisters communicating with one other for healing and understanding to begin. Black love is eternal. Let’s take bigger strides to reclaim our communities!
Please make sure that I am invited to the next one….